“I didn’t come here to fight” ~Pale Rider
Hello I am guest blogging here at the Web Lodge. Let me begin by defining us and then lead into our story. We are Bill Martin and Mo Mislivets; we are adventurers who visit and travel extensively on National Forest lands. We are primarily non-motorized users choosing to hike, bicycle, or ski when we travel. And as adventurers we enjoy putting together long treks into areas, often involving Forest Service cabin rentals and multi-day travel between cabins as well as desiring to access some of the more remote places on our NF lands. We always obey trail usage signs and postings and we are informed, responsible forest users. We are adventure seekers, desiring to travel far into remote places. Our desire is not about the mode of travel or the destination, but to adventure into areas to enjoying our NF Lands and this vast, amazing country. We always obey rules and laws to their fullest, so if no bicycles are allowed we choose to hike, walk, ski, snowshoe, etc. It’s not the mode of travel that defines us, it’s the adventure and the beauty and solace of nature that drives us.
“You … YOU” ~Pale Rider
In January of 2014 we decided to plan an adventure nearby our home, Bozeman MT. Bill investigated some cabin rentals still available for the upcoming holiday weekend (MLK Day) and sent me a few options. One cabin stood out, both being very close to Bozeman and in a seemingly remote and beautiful area, the Yule Mule Cabin located on Buck Ridge and with a close proximity to the Lee Metcalf Wilderness Area of the Gallatin National Forest (GNF). It sounded remote and awe-inspiring and having recently moved to the Bozeman area we wanted to explore more of the area. Also to design a winter recreation adventure close-by. As responsible forest users and low-impact travelers, our first decision is always about access and how an area is managed. We have extensive maps of all the forest we visit and we regularly visit the Recreation.Gov site to rent cabins.
So we booked the Cabin online. Also at that time we were deciding if we would ski or fat bike (a mountain bike 4-5 inch wide tires for floatation on snow or sand) into the cabin. Recent lack of snow at that time in the Bozeman area and surrounding mountains was tending our travel plans towards the fat bike activity. Also the mentioned use of snow-machines in this area would create a firm surface that would enable us the ability to pedal (yes, non motorized we pedal, and yes these are just bicycles) the fat bike. If this surface was not firm enough, or if there was too much snow, we would sink and be unable to travel efficiently. We recognized that the cabin rental site mentioned that the area is popular with snowmobiles and that many activities were recommended at the Cabin including snowshoeing, skiing, and mountain biking. We both have recreated before on non-motorized equipment on snowmobile trails, including using fat-bicycles, skis, and snowshoes, and we enjoy these routes because they often go for longer distances than the ski trails and allow us greater access to National Forest Lands in the wintertime. We consulted the Over-Snow Vehicle Use Map (2013) that listed the roads we were planning to use as groomed snowmobile routes (orange lines on the map). This map only stated that other “motorized vehicles” were not allowed on these routes, and that they are not necessarily “groomed” regularly.
On or around Jan 16th, I telephoned (406-522-2520) the GNF offices to receive the lock combination for the Yellow Mule Cabin. Additionally I inquired if the route we were planning to travel (FS Rd 2599, and the Buck Creek Ridge Road #10) was a regularly groomed snowmobile trail. The FS employee on the phone said “no, not really” and that snowmobiles travel this route regularly. My inquiring regarding the grooming on the route, at that time, was not for access or permission but to determine the firmness of the trail and if we would be able to travel on the surface if we chose to use the bicycles. According to the maps and the recreation.gov website this area was open to many types of travel including snowmobiles, we had no reason to believe that if snow-machines, snowshoers, skiers, hunters, hikers, dog-sleds, could use this trail as well as mountain bikers (AGAIN Note, a fat bike is a mountain bike with larger tires for floatation), then certainly we can use our fat bikes (HELLO, a mountain bike with bigger tires) in the wintertime to this cabin. Additionally all the regulations on the Gallatin National Forest winter use map indicate that this trail is motorized, again no reason to believe a bicycle would not be allowed on a public access trail within our National Forest.
See the Over-Snow Vehicle Use Map (2013) for definitions of “Groomed Route” and “Over-Snow Vehicles”, which will show an emphasis on “Motorized”. Not only does this map indicate that groomed routes are not “regularly” groomed it also defines an over-snow vehicle as a motor vehicle. Certainly a bicycle would be allowed since the route limitations are in relation only to motorized travel. And according to the definitions on this Over-Snow Vehicle Use map a bicycle would then be allowed on all groomed surfaces, since an over-snow vehicle is motorized and a fat bike is NOT motorized.
We decided on taking both our skis and the bicycles (two types of Non-Motorized travel) to the trailhead and to decide our mode of transportation into the cabin based on snow conditions on the day of travel, Saturday, January 18th, 2014. If the road was too soft, then we would ski, if snowmobile travel was extensive enough in the area and the road was “set-up” and firm then we would use the bicycles. Also use of the bicycle if conditions were good would be a more efficient type of travel for the distance and would allow us some more time to enjoy and explore this area, as we also would be bringing snowshoes and desired to travel around the cabin and enjoy the sites on top of Buck Ridge, it sounded amazing to us.
The Trip, Saturday, January 18, 2014
“I didn’t come here to fight” ~Pale Rider
We arrived at the trailhead for Forest Service Road 2599 and parked in the lot across Hwy 191. We surveyed the area and conditions and decided on the bicycles. It was a beautiful day, sunny and relatively warm but still around freezing and the road was very firm and solid with lots of snowmobile tracks. We started off on the bicycles making sure we were at the correct trailhead and we read all the sign postings on the gate and on the route to the cabin. Upon reading the trailhead signs we discovered that this area is actually designated as ‘non-motorized’ in the winter time. And as non-motorized users of the trail systems there should have been no issue of our use on this trail, and in fact, we were actually the emphasized users, as we are the least impact type of users for the management of this area.
It appeared also as though signage at the trailhead was giving a “Special” Exemption to snowmobiles, so as we biked up the road and viewed all the FS postings we realized that our extremely low impact mode of travel (fat biking) is completely Acceptable and was actually the “preferred” management in this area.
We headed up the road which actually crossed private land for about 4 miles until we officially entered Forest Service Land. The road through private land was clearly marked and indicated that FS users must stay on the road.
Interestingly on this section of the road we saw many instances where snowmobiles (over-snow MOTOR vehicles) had violated this right-of-way by traveling off the road into any available open meadow or short-cut off the road into private land, violating the ‘stay on public road signage and management of the area. I Only mention this because, we as responsible Forest Users actually stayed on the road the entire way and would never even think of violating the signs and entering private property, as this was a privilege to pass on this road through private land. However, other Motorized users in this area had actually violated these sign postings and traveled onto the Private Land area with their snowmobiles, as evident by their snowmobile tracks into the private land area.
We traveled on our bicycles up the road, Non-Motorized, quiet, enjoying the natural surroundings, and the blue-bird day. The road surface was compacted by extensive snowmobile travel we were having a pleasant, very enjoyable ride. And we were actually very thankful for all the snow-machine traffic as it had compacted the road surface and allowed for our floatation with the wide tires on the bikes.
The road surface was very good and great for travel for the fat bicycles, it was wide and very compacted by extensive snowmobile user travel. Traveling up to the ridge, we probably waved and saw about 50 – 70 snow-machines on that day heading down the road, everyone was friendly and most people waved backed. We stayed to the right as we traveled up this road and eventually the road “broke-out” into what would be called the beginning of Buck Creek Ridge, this occurred about 6 miles into our trek after FS road 2599 seemed to end. This was an extremely wide ridge that would exist as an ‘open thoroughfare’ for the remainder of our travel (~ another 8 miles) to the Yellow Mule Cabin.
Please note that any open snow surface on this ridge was traveled/self-groomed by snow-machine use. Although there was a marked route with orange diamonds on wooden posts, the entire ridge was the route, dominated by cross-country travel and therefore self-grooming by the extensive amount of snow-machine travel. Amazingly, the entire ridge was a snow route, where, if there was any open area, the snow-machines went cross-country, the ridge was so wide in places it was both awe inspiring. It was also amazing to see so much cross-country travel and compaction on the ridge it was incredible. I had just never experienced anything like this Ridge.
Travel by fat bicycle was possible across most of this wide ridge, where snowmobiles had already cross-country traveled, both on and off what might be considered the “official” groomed route. That is there is so much cross-country travel on this ridge, evidence of where an official “groomed route” begins or ends is essentially non-existent. The snow-machines are self-groomers in that if there isn’t a tree in the way the area is cross-country traveled and self-groomed by snowmobile traffic. ALL open areas of this ridge and in particular on top of the ridge are self-groomed by snow-machine traffic, the “official” route is essentially indiscernible. As a fat-tired cyclist we depend upon the snow-machines for compaction, even though we only need a trail 12 – 16 inches wide, we were thankful for the compaction on the Ridge, we were very amazed at the amount of cross-country snowmobile travel, but thankful that the snow-machines were on this ridge providing compaction, as you can see it was a beautiful day to be on top of Buck Creek Ridge.
Forest Ranger Meetup
“I was just riding. Thought I would take a look around.” ~Pale Rider
About 7.5 miles into our ride, after we broke out onto the ridge I saw my partner, Bill Martin talking to two individuals on snow-machines. As I was down-slope from Bill traveling a bit slower than he was, it took a little while for me to reach him and to learn that they were Forest Service Officials. I only saw that he was chatting with some folks on snow-machines and when I arrived to greet them the Forest Service Official took off with barely a hello, they didn’t stay to chat to me, so I received on account and of the conversation from Bill.
At 7.5 miles into our journey I was waiting for my partner Mo at the top of a steeper section that I had just climbed. Two individuals approached me from the Southwest on snowmobiles. They did not introduce themselves as park officials but I could tell they were by the uniforms they were wearing. At first one of the individuals was extremely interested in my bicycle. he seemed genuinely excited to see a fat bicycle. As I was showing him some of the details and why my bicycle was designed for winter travel when the second person cut in. ‘You know you are not supposed to be here’, is what he said exactly. From that moment on I do not remember the exact words only what I understood. It was extremely hard for me to believe that I was not supposed to be biking on this trail.
The first person stated that he felt uncomfortable about the entire situation but the second one was extremely adamant that we did not belong on the trail. I was told fat bicycles were illegal on all snowmobile trails. When I asked how widespread this rule was I was told two different things. One said it was statewide and one told me country, as in USA, wide.
It was clear to me that I was illegal and that they could issue me a ticket on the spot. But I did not know why. In fact what I was told never at any moment made any sense to me. I understood that there was a “special” order put out to prohibit bicycle use on snowmobile trails. I stood there dumbfounded while they tried to explain. Finally what they told me defined the rest of the weekend. From what I understood I could get a ticket but I was not. They were not going to ticket me and just the fact alone that I knew I was illegal was enough for them. I was told that I was not going to get ticketed in fact the first person said he would never enforce this order.
As my partner approached they left. She pushed her bike up to my position I tried to describe the situation.
“We are illegal and we can get fined $350 dollars if we don’t leave”, I blurted out.
The information received from the FS Officials and relayed to me from Bill was extremely confusing. There was some rule regarding snow travel by wheeled vehicles and this rule applied to the entire state or nation? I knew this to be false immediately since National Forests are organized by regions not state, and that any number of other forests such as the Bitterroot NF , Lolo NF, as well as the Beaverhead NF we can ride bicycles on roads and snowmobile trails and in the winter time, in fact we had both skied and rode our fat-bicycles on these trails as they are open to other non-motorized users. None of the information relayed to me made any sense, and it sounded like the Forest Service Officials were confused themselves about their own rules. Plus we are traveling in a non-motorized area with an Exception given to the snow-machines, we should be the preferred and emphasized user, how could we not be allowed in a “non-motorized” managed area that only appears to give an exception to snow-machines in the winter time? The information was so confusing that I thought maybe they thought we were motorized but Bill insisted they knew we were on fat bicycles. Also the use of the term ‘wheeled vehicle’ was very confusing since we are non-motorized, and it seemed this pertained to other motorized vehicles that were not snowmobiles.
Amongst all confusion the fact remained that we were well over half-way to the cabin, it was getting dark, and the option to turn around seemed more challenging than just getting to the rented cabin where we would have food, warmth, shelter, plus, our trip was planned, our destination set. Additionally the information from the rangers was too confusing to comprehend, plus nothing was marked “no-bicycles” on any travel signs or at the trailhead. In fact we were the preferred users in a non-motorized managed area with an exception given to snow-machines for a certain amount of time in the winter (December through April), and in the summertime the area becomes motorized with other non-motorized travelers having equal if not “Emphasized” access to this area. Because nothing made sense, and this place was amazing, and our trip was planned, I said to Bill, we have to get to the cabin, its getting dark, we need water, warmth and food soon.
The rest of the trail was highly compacted and incredibly wide due to cross-country travel by snow-machines, we arrived at the cabin just after dusk
“Get off our mountain TIN PANS” ~Pale Rider
The next day was also sunny and nice, we had a decent rest in the cabin and decided to go back to Buck Ridge with the bicycles to explore the remainder of the snow-machine route/ridge and we wanted to see the ridge in the daylight, since we arrived by our lights at dusk. We had also brought snowshoes for travel but the surface was so good for bicycle travel that we decided to bicycle on the ridge, take pictures of the awe-inspiring peaks (including amazing views of the Sphinx and Lone Peak), and bicycle to the end of the designate route/ridge.
Interestingly enough as we approached the end of the ridge trail we saw more evidence of illegal snowmobile travel into the wilderness area adjacent to Buck Ridge. The official Buck Creek Ridge Trail Ends as indicated by the posted sign (orange diamond with vertical black line signifying the end of the trail) and the sign indicates this area is closed to prevent damage to vegetation that NO motor vehicles including snowmobiles (the last icon with a red line through it on the sign) are allowed past this point. However, anyone can clearly see the extensive traffic into the closed area, going right past the sign and into the adjacent wilderness area. This trail was compact enough to walk on without sinking. Additionally while we stood at this sign marveling at the illegal activity, just two ridges over were four snowmobiles high-marking to the saddle high on the ridge and clearly in the wilderness (Lee Metcalf) section of this area. We were appalled and aghast again by the violations being committed by snowmobiles in this area. We only mention this because as responsible forest users it was disturbing to us that so many ‘motor vehicle’ violations were occurring in this beautiful area. We support the use of snow-machines in this area as fat-tire cyclist we depend on compaction but we DO NOT support entry into wilderness or other illegal travel that was clearly being violated and clearly marked with FS sign postings on Buck Creek Ridge.
Traveling back to the cabin after enjoying the sights by bicycle on the ridge I saw ahead that Bill was again talking to some folks on snow-machines, I was behind him and it took me a few minutes to catch up to them. Once I arrived I saw that he was speaking with a Forest Service Law Enforcement Official and a fellow from Fish and Wildlife. Together we had a confusing interaction with this Forest Service Official. She said she came up here and actually went to the Yellow Mule Cabin looking specifically for us, as we were apparently ‘Warned’ to leave the area the day before (please note no one, I repeat no one ever talked to me or warned me while I was on Buck Ridge with a bicycle). She asked us where we went and said that she had to give us a ticket because we did not ‘obey’ the Forest Service officials the day before, i.e. we did not leave our National Forest Public Lands. We tried to have a rational conversation, and said that we are non-motorized and that we had rented the cabin and that nothing indicates we cannot ride fat-bicycles or use any other form of non-motorized travel in this area, including the Over-snow vehicle map of this area which only prevent other Motorized vehicles from being on this trail, and allows, skiers, snowshoers, dog-sleds, any other non-motorized form of travel appears to be allowed.
We were told by this FS Official (P. Leddy) about some sort of “Special Order” that indicates no wheeled-vehicle use on groomed snowmobile routes, and that a special order eliminates wheeled-vehicle use from this area. Again this was very confusing information since the maps for over-snow vehicle use indicates we are allowed on this trail and the fact that this is a non-motorized area in the winter-time almost demands that we are the Emphasized, and preferred users. Also, on our entire 14 mile journey there was never any posting regarding the use of bicycles in this area, in fact the only signs only referred to what ‘motorized’ uses were allowed on this ridge, as well as the the sign indicating this area is “non-motorized” in the winter with a single exception being given to snow-machines. I stood there and mentioned all this information without any response from the FS official. During this interaction I also mentioned the fact that there really is no ‘groomed’ trail up here as the entire Ridge is cross-country traveled by snow-machines, I wanted this FS official to point out this “groomed trail” we were getting a ticket for bicycling on because as far as the eye could see and where there were no trees there was a trail, created by extensive snowmobile use over time. Again no response except a comment that if we were 10 feet from where we were we wouldn’t have received the ticket.
“You made a big mistake TIN PAN, you know that” ~Pale Rider
On January 19th, 2014 Bill Martin was issued a Violation Notice for “bicycle on groomed snowmobile trail”. Also disturbing during the issuing of this Violation Notice was the fact that the Forest Service Official said that she was ‘really’ issuing us a ticket because we were ‘warned’ the day before for being on this ridge.
So the violation was issued because we were apparently told to “get off” the ridge by two other Forest Service Officials who spoke with Bill the day before giving him confusing information about the use of “wheeled vehicles” in a non-motorized area? Also disturbing was the fact that this Forest Service Official came out on this day, January 19th, 2014, to find us, and also informed us, that if we had stayed at the Yellow Mule cabin and not gone back up to Buck Ridge to enjoy the sights on the Ridge and the area, that she wouldn’t have issued us this Violation. What? If we had sat in the cabin and not explored the area we wouldn’t have been ticketed? Again nothing made sense from any FS official on this entire weekend. Essentially, we were discriminated against, hunted down by Forest Service Officials, and ticketing for not “obeying” some sort of “warning” regarding our use of a “non-motorized” vehicle (a bicycle) in an area that is in fact non-motorized and which allows a single exemption to snowmobiles in the wintertime. We were truly miffed, and disturbed by all the events on Buck Ridge.
“I ain’t no brave man, but I ain’t no coward neither” ~Pale Rider
We rode back to the cabin stunned. And then decided to return to Buck Ridge with snow shoes. Looking for a fight? Maybe? It would be nice to try and get a little clarification on what just happened. In the middle of these swirling thoughts we had a pretty good snow shoe.
“So what did you really come up here for” ~Pale Rider
On Monday, January 20th, we packed up and left the cabin on our bicycles, we headed down Buck Ridge, back the same way we came, on the self-groomed surface of the ridge. It only took us about 4 hours to pedal/coast down the ridge, the conditions were great, but our experience was ruined by the events on the previous day. A few thoughts and feelings were going through my mind, one was enforceability, how could this violation even be enforceable, another was anger, since this was a ‘non-motorized’ area with an exception given to snow-machines in the winter, how could our non-motorized use be in Violation of anything? And this area allows mountain bikers as well as ATV and motorcycles in the summer time, so in the summer-time it actually becomes motorized (please remember, a fat bike is NOT Motorized).
We rode out in silence, marveling at this area, for both it’s beauty, it’s mismanagement, and the sunken feeling it now gave to our hearts. Such a wonderful place, tracked by so much cross-country snowmobile travel it was disheartening, physically we were on top of this amazing ridge, emotionally we had plummeted with confusion and sadness.
“At least someone will leave Carbon County a few dollars richer” ~Pale Rider
35 thoughts on “Buck Ridge Incident”
It’s unbelievable how much room for interpretation there is with vague language. Plus you are also dealing with untrained and ill informed officials with ego/attitudes.
That’s why it’s important to meet with land management officials and other sport clubs to mitigate these problems. With fatbikes somewhat new to the winter sport scene there is bound to be growing pains. Hopefully through education and community involvement we can make it easier for the next guy when the urge comes to ride.
Government thuggery at its worst. The authors of the article clearly point out the absurdity of the argument by Forest Service Officials. They were in an area allowed to bikes in the summer and snowmobiles in the winter but they are at fault. No logical argument can be made to claim that a snow bike is causing harm to the environment when a snowmobile is also there. History is full of corrupt bureaucrats and politicians making stupid laws and having ignorant, egotistical minions who enforce them. An unjust law is not a law worth following.
I hope you call the overlords of those FS workers and make a complaint with photos and I hope they apologize.
I hope that you took this ticket to court and fought it.
I just want to move on. Fighting the ticket would mean multiple trips to Billings, hiring a lawyer, a taking time off work. I have not slept since the incident and just telling the story and then paying the ticket is what I hope will help me move on.
I would have fought the ticket to the end……..pure idiocy!!!
David if your willing to pay for my lawyer I would be happy to fight it. I am even willing to spend time in jail. But at what cost? My relationship with my partner goes to hell because of all the stress? It has already affected her too much for my comfort. At the cost of my job? This last week I have not been effective at work and things are on a thin line there. I mean why not do methamphetamines? I loose my job and relationship among other things but then I also never get into trouble with the law. I think if anyone feels that I should fight it that they should consider doing something themselves. Like call the forest supervisors office. Why doesn’t everyone stand up and create a shit storm? Why is it up to me? I already got the ticket. It’s your forest too. To be honest I have not seen satisfactory support from my community. We even went to the summit in Ogden … and got “You go get them man”. F this! I ride a bike. I don’t fight other “stupid” human shit. I bike away from it.
NOTE FROM MODERATOR: Due to name calling and all out cussing I am changing what this person posted to a family friendly version ~bill
Horrible Situation, makes no sense. The area you were describing as wilderness is not wilderness. It starts a few more ridges over. You are able to snowmobile into that zone, the no snowmobile sign used to have dates under it but weather has removed them. Regardless, i see no reason why bikes can’t be allowed on the trails. The only thought is that because it is such a popular snowmobile trail is that they are concerned for safety on the first 5 miles of tight trails. Bummer.
I’m not convinced that you would need a lawyer although you might be able to find one to help you. There are some crazy laws that the citizens of this country need to fight. This is one of them.
I’m concerned because to this date we (fatbike community) still do not have knowledge of the definitive reason which has prompted the Forest-wide special order. I’m also concerned because the special order was created 12 months prior and not posted to the public. I’m also concerned that good people are stressed and considering moving from Montana because they get fined for having common sense and an appreciation of our beautiful public lands. Finally I’m concerned because these fine folks have become vilified by some. To be frank, I think this situation is intolerable and no one should be made the fall guy for the Agency’s ineptness.
I’ve run into this yahoo before. Same kind of story first seemingly interested, then full on attitude! Several years ago snowkiting in Yellowstone Park at Big Horn. Snowkiting is skiing or snowboarding using a kite for wind power. It should be noted that this was totally legal at the time (it is no longer allowed in YNP, but could be in the future) and the park rangers were friendly and knew of our activity. These Forest Service dudes pull over towing two sleds, watch us for a bit, and when we landed our kites one started the interest in kiting BS then along came the attitude. The dude told us that our activity was illegal and acted like he was going to write us a ticket or something. I looked at their Forest Service Uniforms and the insignia on the truck. Since, they were clearly not on lands administered by the USDA (and I was getting attitude from him), I informed him that kiting was legal and that he had no jurisdiction in the Park and asked him to call the Park Rangers to verify. He mentioned that he would do that. After I called his bluff, he continued that he would definitely cite me if he caught me kiting on National Forest lands (what he meant was public lands administered by the US Forest Service). At that point all I could say was “you have a good day” and left to squelch my bitterness by kiting the beauty of deep pow and nice wind.
I think it’s really important to start a dialogue with both winter outdoor recreationalists AND the District Ranger/Forest Supervisor. Believe me, the LAST thing the Forest Service wants is bad PR and an angry public. However, that’s the problem with Bozeman and a lot of other mountain towns these days: You have so many competing interests and so many different groups all fighting for their piece of the forest and wanting to exclude everyone else that it is bordering on fisticuffs over usage! The “no wheeled vehicles” rule likely stems from some other group, [e.g. X-Country skiers or even Snowmobiliers] that have gotten miffed about “kids” who are out “ruining” their playground by tearing it up with their BMX bikes. So, the first thing you want to do is talk to the other groups to see if they officially have any issues with snow bikes and why. Then work it out with them to find a compromise. THEN go as a group to the District Ranger or Forest Supervisor and start a dialogue with them. If you’re patient, put forth the effort and put pressure on the Forest Service on a unified community front, they will HAVE to change policy.
Thanks Neal. That is exactly what we are doing.
While this is a troubling incident, I feel a question has to be asked of your decision to go back out to the ridge a day after having an interaction with Forest Service officials. Do you not feel that was tempting fate? I understand that fat bikes are relatively new on the whole and may not be understood. From experience on trails, I have seen the damage done by mountain bikers riding in conditions that harm the trails they use and aid in the erosion of them. I get fat bikes in the conditions you were riding in do not have this impact. But I have to ask what made you feel it was worth risking a trip back out to the ridge a day after the first encounter when you could have snowshoed back to explore it as you opted to do later?
Those are great utopian ideas Neal and a necessary course of action. However, if you browse the process and discussion of the last travel plan, most groups were in support of other groups (even when they had the most to lose). It was the few, the elite that coincided with Forest Service goals that “got their way”. There was some give and take, but mostly take.WRT the no wheeled vehicles rule, I have an acquaintance from Billings who was not allowed to use his tracked converted four wheeler up Buck Ridge. Arbitrary and over zealous pure and simple. When I worked for the Forest Service, the Rangers were sent to law enforcement school. When they got back to the District their ticket books were taken away and they were directed to educate the public on goals and objectives because they knew that more could be accomplished through cooperation than coercion.
That’s an unfortunate incident Mo and Bill.
Cavan Fitzsimmons (Gallatin NF District ranger) came down to the Fat Bike Summit in Island Park last year. My imperfect memory of what he said was that part of the current management plan prohibits wheeled vehicles on oversnow trails. The rule was made with no consideration of fat bikes, or indeed knowledge of their existence. He seemed quite sympathetic to the fat biking issue, and counseled patience. Changing the management plan is not the simplest thing on the world.
I imagine the map for next year will be more clear on this issue, for better or worse.
Sucky situation and I can tell it dragged you down. It might be fun to pound on one’s chest and offer advice on how to somehow “win” and prove a point, but I won’t bother
In a few years these things will get ironed out; we will all know the rules, including land managers. In the meantime, you get to enjoy the dubious honor of serving us all (even federal agencies) by testing the waters and reporting what you’ve learned.
Just take your photos, and this well written blog to court with you and fight it yourself. Stay calm, stick to the facts, and I don’t see how any judge could not see that this is ridiculous. You have the right to face your accusers, so the ranger who wrote the ticket would have to be there. If they don’t show, you can probably expect it to be thrown out.
When dealing with government employees with these attitudes the one thing that will make them back off is publicity. Get a bunch of letters to the newspapers, and anyone above the Rangers level. The more the better especially newspapers.
Caven’s message came through to us at Last Year’s Summit that trails around West Yellowstone were closed to bikes. The Buck Creek incident was a rude awakening for all of us to discover that most trails suitable for winter biking across the entire Gallatin National Forest were closed and that the fines could be substantial or worse. The Dirt Concern Bike Club is working to change this situation. However we still do not know the definitive reason for the closure.
I do know the definitive reason for the closure. This is Montana and here we just got comfortable with allowing women to vote (pardon my joke). The last thing lawmakers want to do is define where bicycles fit in in regards to our forests. It is not the FS’s fault for me getting a ticket for breaking the law. They are hand cuffed by the language/definitions that the US Attorney’s office here in MT has defined. And they are doing their best to use this hard to use language to write their travel plans. Every state must make travel plans but our’s do not have the tools that our forests need to allow us as bicyclists to use it in the way we want. And if you go talk to the right authorities we may just have more opportunities then we are led to believe by local “people in the know”. So lay off the Gallatin National Forest maybe … and refocus on giving them the tools they need.
Finally to those that re-posted the link to this story and suggested that I wrote it. My partner wrote it and I helped bring it to my blog. My reasoning is that she was never warned and she didn’t get a citation for breaking the law. That’s right, she was behind me on day one and the ranger left before she could catch up. In fact they took off just as she arrived. I believe that was pretty offensive to her and I was unable to explain why we were breaking the law. I thought it would be cool to hear her report and a person outside looking in so to speak.
Here is my two cents from both sides of the fence. This is kind of an interesting story, because an argument could be made for both sides. Granted a lot of these law enforcement officials never know the law completely themselves and a lot of times are blowing smoke. I have to chuckle a little bit about this story with the “attitude” of the author, being she clearly didn’t grow up here, or if she did, didn’t get out that much. Because her understanding of a this matter this closely resembles the typical Bozeman transplant mentality…the only term I have for it is yuppie.
But you are right about one thing a lot of those FS guys are all of the same, I know specifically who you talked to the first day you were out. And one of them is a real ding-dong. He is always bragging about how many miles he gets to ride on a new sled every year on the federal dollar.
– You WERE warned by the FS, they clearly said “you can’t be in here” and you still went joyriding the next day.
– The author clearly didn’t know where she was on the map, because the picture she claimed that snowmobilers were violating is clearly legal if you knew how to read a map
– Speaking of reading, if you were to actually read and understand the travel plan you would know that wheeled vehicles are prohibited and if you had any questions about that you should have contacted the ranger district BEFORE you went out.
– It is always the responsibility of the individual to know the travel plan, being the travel plan supersedes the signage in the field
– Be careful who you are calling out with your dialogue, without snowmobilers, or the snowmobile club you would not be able to get to places like that. The snow would be up to your neck.
– You continually call out snowmobilers for breaking the law, and from what I understand you were the only one breaking the law in this case.
– Having a pedal bike on the snow isn’t going to hurt anything and I would imagine that if you get involved you could get that implemented into the travel plan. But you just can’t bellyache about it, you are going to have to do something. That starts by fighting your citation.
– The FS guys or any law enforcement officers typically have a chip on their shoulder and a lot of times hassle the person not really doing anything wrong. They will give you a ticket for rolling through a stop sign with a smile on their face, but when a convicted rapist happens to get arrested they let him walk right out the door. It’s just the way it is with their personalities.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do…
I am the author’s partner. I was born and raised in MT, Roundup MT. I am sure you have a name for me too. Like oil field trash, or sheep herder, or something that makes your inner man chuckle. You must be psychic because she did move to Montana. She would of been here sooner but we just started allowing women to vote here. And now that the restrictions have been lofted and she does not need a escort to go downtown she is starting to feel at ease. I broke the law. And I also am not a FS ranger hater. Although there are those that are not professional. But are we not all sometimes. Humans are imperfect nor do they rule this planet. In the end the planet will rule us.
I could of swore yuppies meant something else. Yuppies to me have bikes on their cars and have symbolic items to suggest they are a part of something they deem cool. So we don’t fit the yuppie portfolio. She rode up Buck Ridge on a snow bike. Hello! We are not yuppies but the real deal … partner.
You know my mother put me in cowboy boots and hat as a child. If I was not 3 years old I would of taken her head off with a bat. I grew up in MT angry and hating outsiders. In my hometown the community put explosives in the gas tanks of minority visitors, and visiting doctors there to treat us. I was taught to hate. Then I ended up in NY and found out that people were cool. And I became well liked and started bike clubs and cultures. And these cyclists taught me I was smarter then I was led to believe back home. I went to college and then again. i learnt arts and culchure. My biggest mistake I see now is that I have come back to the haters.
And I am a stand up guy. I authorized your much appreciated comment. I will meet anyone anywhere and do one of two things. Compete against them, most here beat people with their fists, or take them riding as a friend. I will be the first to admit that I broke the law and got a ticket fair and square. I do blame MT for it’s close minded citizens, and the culture they have molded. I will also admit I am a dumb ass, ugly, and what ever it is you are going to call me next. I am THAT … and more. For me I don’t give a shit what people think but will defend my partner to the grave. She has more dignity in her pinky finger then all the name callers combined. She is the real deal, the most complete nicest woman on the planet. Sadly she will probably kick me out now because no one fights her battles. I could not help it. I look at it two ways. I am protecting your ass or realistically …. I am from Montana and still have that glitch that doesn’t give women credit. But at least I know that.
And another thing she has more intelligence then you suggest. If we were picking sides in a war I would choose her over someone that hates with emotion. She is also well versed in mapping technologies, it is her profession. We did know where we were. Not being from Montana she reads signs because the rest of the country uses them to communicate. The signs were clearly weathered and missing dates. I agree that comments were incorrect about illegal snowmobile use in the story but not entirely. Because 3 ridges over … yes across the Mc Atee Basin we watched a snowmobile, no four of them ridge-lining. Ridge-lining on the ridge where the wilderness boundary runs. Well unless the boundary is adjusted a couple hundred feet off the other side so the sled could turn around.
I disagree we are calling out snowmobiles. I am calling out any individual who does anything illegal. Her story was just stating what we saw. If we saw a pink elephant go over the ridge then would of said pink elephant. I don’t subscribe to Montana Good Ol Boy Clubs where you scratch my back and I protect yours. if I don’t like you I will tell you. BTW, don’t like … oh shit my Montana is shining through again. I like snowmobilers. I am doing a race in two weeks where the snowmobilers of the area are grooming a race course for us … 125 miles long. We are trail citizens not “biker” vs “sledder”. Weird language for Montana I know. And you are wrong about us needing someone … I don’t need anyone, I don’t need snowmobilers. You can not come up with anything I can not do on my own. I am not dependent on you or your ideals and I question your motives. I bet I can ride my fat bike father then you can drive your diesel truck. Unless you run me over.
You know what I find hilarious … is when someone wearing cowboy boots tries to walk on ice and falls. Freaking hilarious. So ridged they cant even learn from falling that they need to evolve and get different footwear.
and thats why you got a ticket ^^^^
Great insight Dan.
The reaction of the author and the reactions of the commentators are a tad overblown. You didn’t get a ticket because of overzealous Forest Service officials – you got a ticket because the law states the area is closed to wheeled vehicles, yet unfairly exempts snowmobiles from ORV regulation. Is it unfair? Sure – which is why a judge recently ruled that the USFS has to rewrite policies regarding snowmobile exemption. That said – the law is still in place and changes to the regulations won’t be released until late summer. Want to change how things work? Take a look at how organizations like WWA, AWA and APA approach similar issues in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. Blogging and contesting charges in court won’t do a thing to repeal existing laws – change has to come from the legislative branch.
Haha…you crack me up. Your thought process is fraught with so much ammo, but I won’t delve into all of it. I don’t have the time, and frankly don’t care.
Although, I think you are taking it a little personal, it must have been that yuppie classification that did it to you. I’m not psychic, but I can tell when people aren’t from around here, the way she wrote the story clearly said to me that she didn’t quite get how it works. And if map reading is her career, she may want to look into a different profession. She may be a wonderful woman (loving, caring, etc. most women are) but my advice is, if you are willing to write something like that, and open it up to comment, then you better be prepared for the flip side of the coin.
Bozeman is not made up of that Good ol Montana town folklore anymore, we have a yuppie infestation. Although Latte and Ski sales have gone up, I can’t say that the vast majority of them have much respect for what was here before them. They are very adamant about bringing their views and opinions (from somewhere else btw) to MT and expect natives to drink their cool aid. What makes the transplant’s views more valid than the native? You can’t throw a rock in Bozeman without hitting someone who moved here to “get away from it all.” Those are the facts bro…
I’m not angry, nor do I hate outsiders. But I do believe that anybody interjecting themselves into what is Montana, ought to know a few things about it. In this case, simple reading would have avoided this whole situation. You said your biggest mistake was “coming back to these haters.” If NY was really that cool, then I’ll head down and get you a greyhound ticket.
I guess that MT mentality that you so clearly pointed out goes both ways. If I look down at my feet I guess I would be seeing sum dog gone shit kickers, and these keys on my desk are for a jacked up ford diesel out in the parking lot. I don’t see the distinction between your name calling and my statement.
Let’s get one thing straight, I don’t think you should have got a ticket, that’s pretty bogus. But I do think that it was your guys’ attitude that got you the ticket. There were plenty of things within that story that don’t get my sympathy.
What you ought to be doing is not writing me, you should be spending time building your case, if you actually want to make some changes to that redneck travel plan.
The mentioned FS LEO has been a problem in Big Sky for some time. In most cases, she has problems with anything motorized.
I would like to see the actual complaint that they received for the investigation into your travel. There is NO reason for you not to be there.
I am an avid snowmobile rider, SAR member and all about shared access.
This is what takes away from all of us in the end.
Looks like you WERE warned, it just didn’t sink in. I guess I would have got the hell out of there if it would have been me & spent that $300 on some handlebar warmers for my bicycle. The FS people sounded like they had an axe to grind though, most of them got picked on in High School and chose their career path to exercise some revenge. There are plenty of tools wearing a badge, most of them don’t have a common sense thought pass through their hair covered computer. If the government did have that mindset we probably wouldn’t owe China $1.3 Trillion.
Don’t lose any sleep over it, it’s just a ticket. Life goes on….
NOTE FROM MODERATOR: Due to violent and threatening nature of this comment I am changing this to a family friendly version ~bill
A “big stick” would have prevented any unlawful bullying by law enforcement.